Bulls and Apes CEO Anthony Mongiello : Money Back Guarantee on NFTs? | Episode 162


Bulls and Apes CEO Anthony Mongiello : Money Back Guarantee on NFTs?

Apr 22, 2022 | Founder/Creator, Interview, Podcast

I’m guessing most people have heard about Bulls and Apes NFT project and if you haven’t you will no doubt over the next week as it has created a ton of hype since making a splash at NFT Los Angeles last month.   Today I’m joined by Bulls and Apes CEO Anthony Mongiello to talk about the hype, their pre-funded project, and some of the very innovative utilities they are leveraging including money-back guarantee and tokenomics.  I hope you listen to this interview with an open mind to what they are building at Bulls and Apes while also taking notes if you’re planning on launching your own NFT project on all that’s involved. 

We're building an entertainment media company that's born in web3, that has a backbone and web three, but not confined to web3. - Anthony Mongiello, Guest, NFT 365 Podcast

I pushed Anthony in this interview as the more research I did on this project the more I was impressed by it but there was some FUD and rumors going around within other communities and I wanted to put those questions to Anthony directly and his transparency and focus on listening to the community made me even more bullish on this project dropping before the end of the month. https://twitter.com/bullsapesproj


Bulls and Apes Project (B.A.P.) is a generative 3D NFT project that aims to transform the industry by setting a new standard for what NFT collectors should expect and demand. We start with de-risking the NFT buying experience for you. We stand behind our products and will back them with an industry-changing 6 Month Money-Back Guarantee, built right into the smart contract. Since our project is fully funded by our founders we can lock up the mint proceeds until we know you are thrilled to own our products.

As always: DO YOU OWN DAMN RESEARCH and we hope you enjoy coming on this Mint 365 journey as we buy an NFT every day for 365 days: https://nft365podcast.com/mint365

The 1st DAILY Podcast buying an NFT mint every day for a year! SuperPOWERED $ADHD Creator Coins on Rally.IO 

The NFT365 Podcast is Hosted by digital futurist Brian Fanzo. 


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The audio and video content contained herein are strictly personal opinions and are not financial advice.  Do your own damn research. DYODR!



Kevin Sturmer 0:00
You’re listening to NFT 365. The first daily podcast on NFT is with your host Fanzo, talking crypto, blockchain, web 3, non-fungible tokens, metaverse, and

What the f*ck is a non-fungible token?

We’ll get to that. It’s time for today’s episode of NFT 365. The only daily NFT podcast minting an NF T every day for 365 days. Powered by the ADHD coin at rally.io. Here’s your host and digital futurist, the ADHD superpowered to Brian Fanzo.

This show is not financial advice. So, do your own damn research.

Brian Fanzo 0:42

Welcome back to another episode of NFT 365. excited to have you back for another episode of the podcast, and another guest episode. You know, we are, you know, the format here for those that might be new. We do two episodes with guests five solo episodes each and every week. And so we are into the 160 160 Street 160 plus days of the podcast, and excited always gonna bring in different guests with different kind of approaches and perspectives. And in some cases, we also bring in some projects that, you know, I look at as innovative as I look at that we can really, you know, kind of educate ourselves on and kind of bring that to light. And so I’m excited to bring in I’m gonna bring in right now on the screen for our video side. Anthony and Anthony is one of the cofounders of Bulls and Apes. So Anthony, welcome to NFT 365 excited to have you.

Anthony Mongiello 1:35
Yeah, Brian, thanks for having me. Very, very stoked to be here.

Brian Fanzo 1:39
Sweet. So yeah, give us a little bit of background about yourself as far as, like kind of your background and then introduce us to bulls and apes. And I have some, you know, of course, some questions for you. And, and the project’s meeting at the end of the month for those that are kind of jumping on here. And for for me, I was kind of, you know, brought into understand the project over the last month and a half or so and excited to learn more on this episode, as well as Yeah, give us a little intro of yourself. And then a little bit about the project.

Anthony Mongiello 2:06
Yeah, sure. So I come from a corporate background, got a 20 plus year in a more traditional corporate environment, always always been focused on strategy, developing teams, culture, scalable businesses, I’ve done a lot of m&a. And technology delivery has always been core to that. And so I’ve always been interested in new technology, I’d missed web1 a bit, I was just right out of college, so really didn’t get a chance to really capture web one, web2 never really interests me. But then when I heard about web3, when I started hearing about nfts, and thinking about the power of the technology, I started to jump to jump in. And then once I got in, I saw the community aspect. And since culture is always a big thing of mine leadership, development and connecting with people, you have that culture aspect, the first time I went into discord, it was VeeFriends discord. I mean, just seeing the the action and seeing people engage. And I was like, wow, this is social, you know, forget Instagram and Facebook, and, you know, and all that this was social, and that really just started to pull me in. And I was like, you know, I need to be involved in this, I really need to be involved. And so I started volunteering my time with a couple of projects I was involved in, wound up meeting the other co founders, so Manny Coates and Guillermo Puyol. During the during those those exercises and trying to help other projects we connected, really started sharing some ideas and like, you know what, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of good in this space, the technology is great community is great. But there’s also there’s a lot lacking too. And so we wanted to really jump in and we thought we had a lot to offer with our, with our backgrounds, you know, Gi and Mannt both serial entrepreneurs, I’ve got this strong corporate background, like I think we can make a difference. And, you know, let’s let’s try to do do our own project.

Brian Fanzo 3:59
I love that. And I love that kind of origin. And, you know, I think, you know, I can relate to having, you know, I worked corporate world for most of my early career and now the last eight years on the entrepreneur side and, and, you know, for, you know, for our listeners, like we talk a lot about, you know, the the the trust and like the research that we do each and every day for our you know, buying an NF T every day for a year really starts with the founders right understanding, you know, can we trust the founders what their backgrounds were? Or are and you know, for me that was definitely a green light for you as I started researching your project and you know, when I went to the website for the first time, I remember the art just being like man this this art is I mean beyond impressive as far as 3d and also you know, from a standpoint of like bulls and apes it doesn’t feel like another ape projects I give the team credit for for that piece. But then there are some aspects of the project that you know, I mean, we can kind of walk around I mean the six month money back guarantee jumped out at He and I have been a part of two projects, I believe that were last year that had a Money Back component, but nothing like what you guys are offering. So I guess the first question is art, where’s the inspiration? The artist? Give us a little bit about the art side. And then we’re going to tap into the the money back guarantee, please as well,

Anthony Mongiello 5:19
sure, no problem. So Manny Coates, one of the co founders, he’s he’s got a 3d software background, very, very creative guy. I’m just super impressed by the stuff that he’s able to turn out. And he’s supported by a pretty large team that we have. And anybody that knows 3d art, it’s not just drawing on your iPad, right? There’s it literally I get fascinated by it, when when they show me cuz I’m not an art guy, right. I’m more, I’m more the corporate operations guy. But it goes from like a clay model, to needing to be textured and molded. And then the clothes all you know, when you first see the clothes, you’re like, wow, that’s that. And then when you see the final product, like holy crap, there’s a lot that goes into it. And the way we’re doing it, you could cheat on 3d. So you could create 3d assets and just layer them on top of each other, we’re not doing that every single one of our NFT’s is going to be a fully rendered 3d model, which means it takes more time and more resources. And you think about the cost of this render farms that you’ve got to rent out. And it’s it, there’s a lot of costs that goes into it. And so that’s the art. And then from an eye perspective, you know, when we’re looking at the art, we’re thinking long term, right? We’re in this for the long term, and we’re building out an IP, we’re building out a brand we call ourselves, we’re an entertainment immediate company that was born in web three, but we’re not being confined to web three, we’re always gonna have a web three backbone, but we’re looking at our art and saying, Can we see this in a Pixar film, you know, that’s the, you know, that’s the kind of barometer that we’ve got when we’re looking at it. And, you know, we don’t want it to be overly realistic, but we don’t want it to be cartoony. You know, we want it to be fun, we want people to be able to connect with it. So when you’ll see our our Bulls, and eventually the Apes, as well, it takes an old walk of life component to it, you know, you’ll see a police officer, you’ll see an astronaut, you know, you’ll see somebody going hunting, you know, so you’ll see an athlete, it’s an all walks of life kind of approach to it.

Brian Fanzo 7:21
I love that man. I mean, the art is beyond impressive, it will definitely include the in the show notes here. And, you know, if anyone jumps to the website, you scroll down, and you can see examples of a lot of the art, you know, and I, like I love the surfing thing, you know, there’s surfing, one is a really good one. You know, and I just, I just think the art itself, you know, for, you know, we bought a lot of projects, you know, almost 1000 NF T’s in my bag as a whole. And it’s very rare that I’m like, wow, this is a 3d approach that jumps out. And I will also say, like, it’s also pretty impressive from a founding team perspective, that your artist is also one of the founders, which I think is a beautiful, not as common, as many might think. scenario. So I’m curious, you know, the, the I mentioned the the money back guarantee side, how did that come to life? And, and like, what was like, what was the original thought process on that? And, and how can people think about this idea of us six, six month money back guarantee, which I know, for most of our listeners, I probably haven’t even thought of an NFT project with that kind of offering.

Anthony Mongiello 8:23
First of all, I mean, you think about six months in NFT. Land, it’s like a lifetime. Like, it’s just it’s amazing to even think through it. Everybody says that NFT time is completely different. It’s like you’re in a time warp. But we weren’t thinking about it. Just to be completely frank, we weren’t thinking about money back guarantee, when we started the project, what we were looking at, we were focused on fully docs, founders professional background, and pre funded project, you know, meaning we’re bringing capital to the table, you know, we’re not raising capital with with our mint. You know, we’ve got the capital, and we know what we want to build. So it’s not about raising the capital. But what happened was, we did our project reveal when we, you know, announced our Twitter and discord. And it was right around the time of squiggles. And so you had all of this, you know, even you know, remember squiggles had a doxxed founder. Right, quote, unquote. And, you know, all this blowback was there, and we’re like, Oh, my God, what did we get involved in, you know, we wanted to, you know, we’re bringing legitimate knees to the space, all of the marketing plans that we had, you know, everything was being deemed a scam and a cash grab and a rug pull. And so we’re sitting there putting our heads together, the three founders, and we’re like, what are we going to do? And we’re a bit disheartened. And then we said, You know what, we’ve got to lean into this, because that’s not us. You know, we’re here for the long term, we’re bringing legitimate legitimacy to the space. And so Gi was like, Well, how about we do a money back guarantee? And we’re like, Yeah, sure. We don’t need the mint funds so we could lock it up. And and so we were like, Yes, this is what we’re gonna do. You were doing it, we’re going front and center with it, we put a press release out, we’ve got a PR firm that we’re working with. And we’re like, that’s it, we’re going, we’re going in on it, it’s going to be in the smart contract, it’s going to be automated, you know, anybody, you know, my, my sister who might, who might buy it, she could go on to the website, and I won’t even know she’ll go on the website and hit refund. And that’s, that’s what we wanted to be able to do. We wanted to be able to say, we go to our families and say, hey, you know, you should buy one, we wanted to be able to say that with confidence and comfort, and provide them with confidence and comfort that it’s not them just buying from us, you know, they’ve got that protection there, too.

Brian Fanzo 10:36
Well, I love that approach. Right. And and I think you mentioned something, you a pre-funded project, right, which I don’t think we hear that, that the language used like that too often. But understanding it for you know, for, though, you know, our listeners, you’re really NFT projects, majority of them have really created companies upside down or backwards or, or in reverse of what the traditional side of the fence in the sense of you usually have the business plan, you have the you know, the proof of concept, you have you established credibility, and then you raise funds, and let’s face it, a majority of projects go the other way around, they kind of start up overnight, they’re using the mint as kind of the fundraising, and then they’re like, Okay, well now how do I implement and we’ve talked a lot about, you know, last year, like a year ago, over the summer, you know, that was just the norm and you could pretty much you know, sneeze and outta NFT project and it would sell out overnight. But in you brought up you know, kind of the the squiggles side of the house and like the rug pulls that that have been happening, but also just, we are a much smarter NFT consumer and collector group that we are, we’re learning things that we should see and trigger and, and flag. And I mentioned this to you, you kind of pre show, like when I was first I remember I first got the link it was I think it might have been like a week and a half before and NFT LA someone had sent me the link to the project. And I will say my very first instinct was up, this thing looks too good to be true. And I will tell you to be good to be true on my department as to things because I’m not one that takes face value on anything. But as soon as I hear too good to be true, like it feels too good to be true. I’m like, damn, this is gonna require more research for me to discover the legitimacy of the project, because there are some projects that I’ve, you know, kind of determined too good to be true. And then the more I researched get to know the founders, I’m like, oh, man, this is great. versus kind of what we saw what it was squiggles and, and even some of the prefunded side, right, we knew that squiggles, the amount of budget that they put out ahead of time, because they knew how much they were going to make on the mint right, so the new that side. Um, so I love that you kind of addressed that piece of it. You’ll talk a little bit about, you know, you said you mentioned the other two co founders entrepreneurial experience yourself. You know, background in the business side, both been in the web, all three been in the web space for the web3 space for a good while, talk to us a little bit about like, the maybe some of the things that excite you about not only like utility, but the things that you’ve learned from other projects that you’re gonna make sure they’re integrated in, in this project as well.

Anthony Mongiello 13:11
Yeah, so the first first first thing and you’ve touched on it already where a lot of projects, get to mint, like, that’s the goal. And then it’s like, Okay, now what, and so so then there’s this letdown, because there’s not a plan in place. And so anyone who’s run a business before, you know that it takes you a month or two to get a legitimate plan in place, and to get people organized around it ramping up the team recruitment, especially in the web3 space is very, very difficult. And we learned that early, early on, one of the big challenges was, was recruiting and getting a team in place. And we still were still understaffed, for sure. But we’ve got we’ve got a strong core together. But But anybody who’s been in business and has run a project, or who’s trying to start a business knows that the ramp up takes a while. So if you can imagine this hype, getting to mint and we’ve all experienced it, and it sells out and like yes, this project is going to be awesome. And then two months later, you start taking action. That’s number one. You know, we’re we’ve got plans in place already on on how to deliver and what that roadmap is going to look like. And we’ve got that core team together. We’ve got, I don’t know about 20 people on the team, between artists and project managers and people reaching out and collabs and ambassadors. So we’ve got we’ve got that, that core together that we can we can build off of pretty rapidly. And so that’s, that’s, that’s number one. Number two is is actually delivering what you say you’re going to, you’re going to deliver and so we’re really firm on we’re not just going to say yeah, we’re gonna be in the metaverse or Yeah, we’re gonna do merch, you know, sure we want to do those things. Absolutely. But when we put it on the roadmap, we’re going to be certain that we’re going to be able to deliver it at you know, if there’s all these different delays and stuff but you know, within within a reasonable timeframe.

Brian Fanzo 15:01
I love that. And I won’t even say like, just from like, you know, the vision and the things that you’re committing to deliver your there are elements of, you know, the, the tokenomics side of the house. And, you know, of course, you know, being bulls and apes, right, there’s like that that component as well. You know, I’m curious, you know, for, I will just give you I give a lot of credit, you know, I didn’t end up being able to speak at NFT LA, I was originally booked, unfortunately, I had a meeting with the FBI that was about my my compromise wallet that I ended up having to kind of pass on that event. But I will say you I had a lot of people that I knew were at the event, they were at the event, many of them, I was transferring some of my NFT’s, to their wallet so they could get into events. And almost all of them mentioned your project. And I will say like standing out from the noise at a NFT event I’ve been now to five or six as a project, I think is not as common as mine, maybe many would think I’m curious, can you share a little bit about like, what your strategy was for NFT LA. And maybe some of the things we can all learn from really bringing an NFT project to an event because I mean, kudos to the team. I mean, I was getting inundated from and from worlds that like are not even close from people that aren’t in the space that I’m getting like pulling in to like the the true degens and you guys got on on the Raiders across the board. Give us a little bit about that event strategy that you guys

Anthony Mongiello 16:23
approach. So So unfortunately, there was no strategy. We pulled it together, like last minute. So what happened was, again, you know, we think we have a compelling story. But we haven’t very different we have a very difficult time breaking through all the noise and, you know, influencers that, you know, they’re like, No, we’re not taking any paid promotion, we’re not doing this. So like anything that you any angle we went through, I don’t know how many marketing agencies that we lost money on, because they were just complete crap. And they were doing Schilling and bots and all this stuff. And we had to just cancel contracts, lost money. You know, we went through all of that. But then the a little bit of a turning point was South by Southwest. Both of the the other co founders are from Boston. And so they wound up going to a couple of events that that were in South by Southwest. And they realized that when people got to talk to them, and see who they weren’t like, oh, wow, you’re for real. Oh, you’ve got you’ve got this experience. What’s your project again? Oh, wow. And so it started, that started happening very quickly, like NFT LA. And we got to be there. And so we pulled it together real quick, we worked out a sponsorship deal, we wanted to have a presence there. And we just hopped on a plane. And just and just got there, it was a last minute trip. And what we found there and our strategy, once we got there was we’re going to tell our story to as many people that we can, we can grab. And so we just we need, I think I listened to maybe one speaker, it was just constantly walking around and talking. And we were in the VIP Lounge, which was great. We walked around to everyone’s booth and we listened to their side and then say, Okay, well, you know, yeah, we’re, we have a project too. And, and just the more people that we talk to, the more it started growing, even just at the event. And so it was this networking effect, where you know, just being genuine, just being authentic, just telling our story, listening to other people and listen to what some of the challenges in the space are. And so it’s really a combination of listening, and then just being very genuine and very authentic. It just, it just worked for us.

Brian Fanzo 18:21
Well, I mean, I’ll tell you, I, I was getting these messages. And actually one of our previous guests, Michael Stelzner, who is founder of Social Media Marketing World, he actually was texting me, I think, right after he initially heard from you guys, and he’s like, fans, do you know about this project, and I was, again, a little bit aware of it. And I sent him like three questions to ask because I was like, like, I knew that like he was, you know, he was there and he was interacting. And of course, he, you know, was able to ask you guys some of the questions on my side. And I’ll say part of that was like the beauty of like, the authenticity and, and hearing more of your story. And, and you mentioned kind of like cutting through that noise. For those, like from a project perspective. How are you measuring like kind of impact or momentum leading up to midday? I believe midday is April 29. If we’re correct, how are you kind of kind of like tracking that and like thinking because I will say you not only you know Michael Stelzner, who was on the podcast, but you’ve teamed up with some of our our projects that are good friends with bunny Buddies is a project that I use Ari and Mitch and the team become you know, some of my closest friends in the space and, and you guys did a mega Twitter space this past weekend together. So I love like that. Like from my standpoint, I’m seeing a lot of collaboration, a lot of things going down. How are you guys kind of tracking momentum leading up to the the mint date?

Anthony Mongiello 19:44
Yeah, sure. So there’s this hard metrics that we’re looking at. So we’re looking at engagement on Discord. So what percentage of our community is actually engaging and discord does a nice job of showing us benchmarks? And we’re well above benchmarks on on the engagement rates. It’s, it’s pretty, pretty cool to see. We’re also looking at demographics. And so you’re able to see geographic regions. And we’ve got some targets in place that that we’re measuring. Like I mentioned, we had some some hiccups at the beginning with with some of the marketing agencies and we had bots all over the place in our Discord. We have bots on on our Twitter. And now what we’re seeing is a lot of those bots dropped off, and it’s being replaced with high quality. So the numbers look relatively flat from where it was at the beginning. But that was all bots. But we’re actually gaining some really quality community members. So looking at the engagement, looking at the number of posts in discord, looking at retweets, looking at comments. And then you mentioned the mega space, we billed it as mega space and mega space two. Mega space one, we had the max of about 1008 people in Mega space one an hour, it was our first official Twitter space, we had 3700 people pass through throughout a seven and a half hour period. Mega space too. We got a lot of people saying hey, you know, seven half hours, we love you guys, but my god that was long, you know, can you condense and we did we condensed it to about two bath three hours. And so of course, three hours, we got to 980. And we had well over 2000 that 2500 people pass through for mega space too. So we did it again. And so that was a huge one. And then coming out of that. It’s funny is people that you know, you told the project about earlier on. I’m like yeah, sure, sure. Um, cool, cool, you’re doing something that all of a sudden, they start to come back, hey, you know, can I get on your whitelist. And so you start seeing that, which is more anecdotal, that’s more qualitative. But you start, we’re starting to see a lot of that too, which leads you to believe that you are starting to break break through the noise. But I’ll tell you what, even you know, so we saw all of these projects, as you mentioned, just sell out overnight, and sell out with very little plan and, you know, not having real business background. And so we naively thought it was going to be relatively easy that we were going to put our profiles out there. And people were like, Oh, wow, you know, great business experience. It’s not easy. It’s not easy. It’s a grind, and you got to get on Twitter spaces. You know, we’re finally breaking through and getting on some podcasts, we think it’s really important for people to see us and hear us. So it’s it’s not easy. And if you think it’s gonna be easy, you’re kidding yourself. And so it’s it is a grind. Yes, we’re early, which, which is the beauty of it, but it’s still hard work.

Brian Fanzo 22:37
Now, yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. And I appreciate the transparency, right, and ale and full transparency to our listeners, you know, I’m very transparent in any relationship that I have. And I was very blessed, we were able to kind of work with your team and offer some white lift spots for our founders, members of our NFT 365 project. But that’s kind of where that where our relationship is established. And, you know, I love that you brought up some of the hiccups early on. And I will say that, you know, I’m since I’m buying an NFT every day, you know, I do I run scans on Twitter accounts. I’m in the discord looking at bots. And I remember initially looking at your Twitter account was like, wow, there’s a lot of what we call eggheads, right? There’s a lot of Twitter accounts that don’t have profile photos. And, and just to be clear for like those that are out there, there’s a lot of profiles that don’t have bots, or that are paying for followers that have that as well, right big Twitter has. I mean, I’ve been a active user on Twitter for 10 plus years, I have 140 some 1000 followers, and I know like when some of the tools trigger things, I have to go deeper than that. Right. And I have been ranting a little bit lately about you know, I have a real disgust for a lot of Tik Tok you know, quote unquote experts that are saying like, they’ll say, like this Twitter account has to be the must have bought their followers because they’re only getting like 30 retweets and they have 30,000 followers. And to me that’s like a very, like, surface level look at way of looking at it. But I will say like, the more I’ve followed that the your account more I’ve been into your discord, the activity is real, right? And for those that are maybe you because I think that’s part of the problem in this space, is that if people get a an impression, or there’s a Fudd or even someone socializing like Hey, I saw this project had something something here the whole point of do your own damn research is that we each have to do our own research and I would argue, doing your research more than once like a long a projects journey, you’ll as projects are getting to know I will say like I listened to the recording from your Twitter space, and I was I mean, I actually texted my team of 30 minutes into that space. I was like anyone who was in that space or heard that recording can it can put to bed a lot of the things that anyone might have thought of just because we got to hear those stories. And so I’m curious just from you mentioned, you know, some of those early mistakes, but then kind of coming to life in the you’re kind of putting yourselves out there. You also have some complexities that are built in, right, you have the money back guarantee, you have the tokenomics, you have multiple pieces of art. How are you guys approaching kind of like educating your you know, either you, especially even the people that might mean you for the very first NFT they meant, but also then on your roadmap as you’re delivering, what is the kind of education plan to kind of onboard people into some of the more complex elements of your project?

Anthony Mongiello 25:28
Yeah, so so we were fortunate enough to meet, meet a content creator during at NFT LA, and hired him and brought him on full time. And so you see, Chris Darphy, this is active on our Twitter and putting some videos out, well, he’s going to be doing bite size videos, because we do know there’s a lot of complexity there, there’s layers to it, and not not everybody’s going to have the time to go and read through our website is basically like a white paper right now, right? There’s, there’s a ton of information on there. But some people gonna want some bite sized pieces. So we are going to put together some short videos, we’re also going to put them on YouTube. So you could kind of do a playlist. So if somebody’s new coming in, you know, and they want to, they want to just go through the playlist and you know, listen to everything that there is to know about the project, they’ll be able to do that. But if somebody wants to just look at a particular aspect, they’ll be able to pick it up, and it’ll be a short video where they could, they could they could take a quick, quick view of the video and get their information rather, rather quickly. So that is something that we’re working on now. And we are gonna put out there. Because we do we do think it’s important to have the long form and the short form for people people to be able to consume, because everybody consumes differently,

Brian Fanzo 26:38
for sure. And I will say, you know, I’m friend of Chris’s, he reached out to me, right after NF TLA. And saying that he was going to team up with you guys. And that was another checkbox for me when I’m, you know, in the research game, right? I think collaborating with, you know, he’s a creator that I’ve trusted. I’ve spent a ton of hours with him in clubhouse rooms, I’ve watched his content, he actually reached out to me about using a couple of the sound bites and quotes from some past interviews where he brought up some things and I of course, said yes. So I wanted to bring that in there. Because I think you mentioned earlier like, you know, figuring out the influencers, a marketing agency, but then like, kind of like adapting and finding a creator that’s going to help, you know, do that. And, you know, for our one of the things that I’ve been offering to a lot of discords, you’ll free of charge is like jumping in there and saying, Hey, I, I have a cybersecurity background, I’ve actually my wallet was compromised, which then adds another layer, you know, I’m willing to teach, you know, and share some of those journeys, some of the things that we’re learning. And so I love that you kind of brought that into life as well, it kind of, you know, kind of collecting with a creater that is integrated and doing some of the education. When you you know, when you look at like the date coming up, right, you’re for those that we know, we’re recording this and the podcasts of us will be out right around the same day, but like almost a week or so out from mint date. I’m curious from a standpoint of like, you know, you mentioned you’re you’re using some like heavy 3d rendering, right, you have definitely some complexities with you know, the six, six day money back guarantee i i can just say from a you know, from someone that went from having five wallets to I now have 25 wallets, thanks to this compromised wallet. There’s some complexities there right on, like, how do I get my money back guarantee when I’m, I’m transferring my NFT’s, to maybe a cold storage, or I’m moving them between wallets. I’m curious, like, there’s a lot happening and I and for anyone that’s out there, no project should ever be expected to deliver perfection. Like it’s like pretty much the only guarantee that we have in the NFT space is that with every launch is there’s going to be you know, things are going to happen. I mean, many people look at VeeFriends as a gold standard, but they forget that it was 13 days to roll out VeeFriends one, book games was delayed three times and even V friends two was just delayed about 40 hours. So and they have Vayner NFT. And it’s Gary Vaynerchuk. Right. So like, I always love to like level set that because it’s very easy for us to kind of really set on, you know, expectations that really are things we can achieve. So I’m curious as a founder, as you’re like, kind of like ramping up at the end. What are the things that are like right now you’re not only focused on but like, you’re really like hoping like a these things go right and like things that you can kind of have all of your attention? Yeah, sure.

Anthony Mongiello 29:14
So the so the there’s a few pieces of complexity. Number one, you mentioned already the rendering, right. So that’s, that takes some time to do it. Right. With the 3d model. It takes some time. So there’s, there’s a, there’s a there’s a risk area there for sure. The other risk area is that when you think about the traditional, I talked about that layering, that layering can happen outside of the art application. So you know, it can happen outside of Photoshop or it can happen outside. But the way we’re doing it we have to do the trait generation and the randomization of the traits within the program, which means that the metadata is not available for us to be able to implement in the smart contract until we’re done actually producing All of the all of the assets. So there’s a there’s a piece, there’s a piece to that there, we’re getting the smart contracts audited. So so the auditing needs to needs to happen as well. And that, of course needs to happen after all the developments done. And then you just mentioned, the the refund, the official on our website, officially, you can’t move the NFT out of your wallet in order to be eligible for the refund. Now, a ton of people for security reasons have come back and said, Come on, that’s not fair. You know, you know, we want to be secure, can you come up with a solution? So that was a last minute feedback that I’m working with the tech team on now to see how we can accommodate that. So there’s a couple of approaches in place. That’s not finalized yet. And we’ve got to get that in place, and then get the contract audited. So So yeah, there’s, there’s a lot we’re working on right now is to be completely honest, like cities. And, you know, we’ve got a couple of our artists are in Ukraine. And so literally, they’ve been going from location to location to try to keep on working, while it’s a war going on in their country. And so that adds some complexity. You know, Manny, who’s driving the art, he got COVID over the weekend. Luckily, symptoms aren’t bad. But yeah, look, you know, I’m just getting open, there’s a lot going on.

Brian Fanzo 31:22
we’re living in crazy times, right? Like, I mean, just like, I mean, we have impacted from a war and a global pandemic, not to mention a space that we are creating the culture on the fly, and we’re recording this. And like my last four hours, were up ended on 420, thanks to Coinbase dropping the beta version of their NFT project, and all of a sudden, you I got access, and then they had some things different on the crater site, a crater fees, and I was like, it’s opening up. So this space is is wild on that side. I also love that you’re open, even if the feedback isn’t implementable, right, the fact that you’re open to it, right. And I will say, like, we’re preaching, you know, based on my experience with my wallet, also, you know, like minting from a wallet, that is more of a burner wallet. And then once you’re minting, transferring into a ledger or hardware wallet, but I will also say like, for me, projects that are offering these type of things. This is also one of the things like okay, maybe I take the precautions and mint directly from my my Ledger Wallet. Now, for anyone that’s minted from a hardware wallet, it’s a little bit if it’s if the mint is going fast, your chance of like, kind of keeping up is you have to deal with, you know, your your lightning cable, your unlocking of a physical device. I mean, I have I mean, literally minds plugged in right here as I was doing some things pre show, but I do love that you’re kind of trying to kind of approach that and figure it out. And I will tell you, I’ve been in contact with both Metamask, OpenSea, and then we had a conversation through kind of from a blockchain perspective on like, how can we kind of fix that right? Like, I mean, the idea that we should be able in ways to map wallets pre predetermined mapped wallets ahead of time where it’s not, you know, because let’s face it, if you give a little bit, people are going to use bots and automation. And they’re going to take advantage of that of that six month guarantee. And, and for all those that are good people doing good things that are like why can’t they just make it work, the people that are scamming and that are looking to make a quick 0.1 ETH to one eath return across a big piece, they’re going to pound the smart contract for any weakness, especially with there’s a guarantee a money back guarantee component. So I respect the fact that this isn’t as easy as like, oh, we’ll just turn on a switch. But I do believe like the blockchain, because it’s transparent, we should be able to implement that. And I know some of our listeners work for companies like pre mint, and a couple of the projects that are out there, I’m going to push them and happy to share some of my ideas and some of the things that we’ve been talking about. Because I think that’s, that’s an important factor here is we want people to be safe. We want to protect the projects and the smart contract from, you know, the bad actors that are in play as well. So I appreciate that. You mentioned that and the fact that you’re listening to some of the feedback. As far as the mint experience goes, you know, there’s, there’s, you know, there’s pre sales, there’s whitelist, there’s the mint, there’s the reveal, can you give us a little bit about what does that look like for you guys? And maybe even a little bit of like, why you went with the approach that you went with? Because I think there’s some innovation in that space as well.

Anthony Mongiello 34:22
Yeah, you know, so our original approach was, we were going to do a small whitelist and then a Dutch auction after and then, you know, looking at, again, all of the cash grabs that were out there, you know, the Dutch auction a lot of times it’s just trying to maximize FOMO and it’s trying to maximize and, look, you know, there’s a lot of solid Dutch auctions that went out and you know, and especially when you do a true Dutch Dutch auction, then you get to the bottom price, which most projects aren’t doing, they’re doing right now, whatever you do, so it creates that FOMO and, and, you know, that was our original approach, but then we looked at it and said, You know what, we want to be as fair as possible. Well, we’re doing your originally we thought more of the marketing was going to be in place, but then we shifted to pure organic. And since we were doing the organic, we said, let’s just go heavy on the whitelist. And let’s try to sell out via the whitelist. And not even get to a public sale. But, you know, as you know, there’s industry averages that are out there of, you know, you got to get this X number of wallets on in order to sell this many mints and all of that. And so one of the things that we’re doing now, because we are gathering some, some traction on the whitelist, you know, we want to be very, very fair to the people that signed up early. So we’re contemplating again, this is some feedback that we’ve received, you’re looking at how do we how do we chunk it up? So that, you know, people who signed up early get an earlier start than people that are there then earliest start them public sale? So we are looking at trying to make it as fair as possible? You know, to your point, again, just listening to customer feedback as much as possible. At the same time, you know, we want to we want to sell out, too, right? So how do you keep on? Keep the momentum going? So we’re balancing all of that out. The other thing that, you know, we are talking about right now is when when do we reveal, and it tell you right now, it’s not going to be an extended, you know, two weeks later, we’re going to reveal or any garbage like that. I hate waiting. I want to see it, I want to see it. So you know we are we’re going to be as fair as possible with that. So we haven’t figured out exactly when the reveal is going to be. But it’ll be something where it’s something like 48 hours after the mid starts and you know, some period of time, maybe like an hour, you have to sell out or something like that. I don’t know, we’re still figuring it out. But it’ll be kind of kind of like that.

Brian Fanzo 36:40
Well, you know, and for those that are listening to this, like and you’re thinking about launching your own NFT project, I would love for you to go back and listen again, and listen to the different components that are testing, trying, learning, exploring, realizing, okay, pulling back on that figuring out like the different nuances. I mean, something as simple as like, most people from the outside would say, Do I do a whitelist? Or not a whitelist. But it’s way more complex on that, right? Like, how do we avoid gas wars? How do we reward those that are early as fans, if we’re doing phases, we limit the maximum amount that someone can buy, right? There’s an all of these things, if in some cases, one of those things done either wrong, or done in a way that might end up making a project a lot harder to sell out or alienating one group or another. And so I appreciate I appreciate you kind of breaking that down. Because I mean, it’s, I’m getting to a point right now where I mean, I’m excited to onboard new people into this space. But the trend that I’ve been seeing is people that are onboarding now, like right now in this current, they see what’s out there, and they’re like, I’m ready to launch an NFT project. And I’ve been so like, I mean, I’m hell bent on saying you must be a collector, before you’re a creator. I firmly believe in this space. It’s essential. But it’s also because some people just see like, oh, you pick art. You have some utility, you have a website, you have a Twitter account, a discord. Like there’s like these like checkboxes. And, you know, I will say like, we launched NFTs for the podcast back in November, I learned a lot from that launch myself now, advising a couple of projects. And for our upcoming PFP project that we’re launching. I’m factoring a lot of these in and even some of the questions side is like for me, I know what we’re going through. So I really appreciate that honesty. Last question I had are kind of like, not really last question, but we’re kind of bringing this full front, you have a fully doxxed team. Amazing art, you have a extremely active discord, you made a splash South by Southwest and FCCLA. But they’re the Moonbird launch that there was this weekend right there, there was there’s almost like this weird element of web three, it reminds me of like, when, when someone’s a fan of a band, right, like they, they they love being a fan of the band early on in the band makes it on the radio and like, they’re, they’re so jaded, and you’re like, Wait, that’s the band’s like life goals and dreams. And, and I feel like, there’s an interesting cross section right now in web3, where people that have their things, almost two together, are looked at as like, oh, they, they they’re like the web2 versions taking over our web three. And then you have the opposite side where like, everyone, we don’t know anyone’s names that are founders and like, that’s, they’re setting us up for a scam. And I’ve been saying this on, you know, I’ve known Kevin Rose, I was on a panel with him in 2013, actually, funny enough at South by Southwest, and like, I think there’s space for that whole world. And I would say you guys kind of fall in that in that like middle side or even more leaning towards the Moonbird side on pre funded experienced businessman that are that are a part of the project. You know, all star art you have tokenomics built in, and it’s not like hey, we’re gonna launch a coin at some time. For our listeners jump on the website, you’ve broken down a lot of the mechanics behind that. How How would you like maybe even advisor just give your take on that because I think it’s such an unfortunate Good thing that we want everyone to have these checkboxes. And then if you have too many of the checks, we now are like, almost too afraid that you’re, you’re like too polished too good. And I think for those that are out there, this is do your own damn research, you decide the projects that you’re a part of, but I am I’m so bullish pun intended on projects that have their shit together. Because let’s face it, the the the opportunity for a rug pull, but what it would do to each of your individual personal brands and and who you are, as individuals would be, you know, the risk is way too high in my personal opinion there. But what’s your take on kind of like, the, you know, even like the moon birds trend, now, you didn’t, you didn’t know moonbird was coming out, like 14 days before your project. But give me your thoughts on just kind of that kind of impression of like, when things are too good, you know, to pull together how that’s going to be in taken in web3.

Anthony Mongiello 40:49
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting, right? Because, first of all, I think it’s not one size fits all, I think there will be there will be a sub community that are OG, and it’s you know, it’s it’s pure web3, decentralization, Tao, you know, it’s trustless. And it’ll be everything that is core to web3, there’ll be some people that just say, that’s all that’s all I want to be involved in. And that’s okay. And I think there’s room for it. But there’s another group of people that is saying, Hey, I see NFT’s as something that can be mainstream, that there’s going to be mainstream adoption. And for those people, if you want mainstream adoption, then some of those checkboxes are gonna have to start to be checked. Because if they’re, if they’re not, and, you know, I love goon birds, big fan of Kevin Rose. So I’m really pleased to see what they’re doing. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a project that, you know, I think, I think can be successful, for sure. So really pleased to see it. And I think that we’re in the same vein. And so I do think that we’re going to bring some of that to the table, also in a little bit of a different a different approach. But but but similar checkboxes, we’re going to need people that respect web3, and that web3 can respect and so I hopefully, we’re one of those people that can be that bridge. But let’s be clear, you know, mainstream adoption, and, you know, true big companies are coming, right. And so if we’re not in web three, and I’m going to say we as, as I’m in web three, if we’re not careful, they’re just gonna blow us by. And so we’ve got to, we’ve got to push back and make sure that they respect the essence of what it means to be web three, but we also got to be accepting of web two coming into web three, you know, again, otherwise, they’re just gonna they’re just going to overtake the technology and do things their way. So it’s going to be a little bit of a back and forth and a balance between the two.

Brian Fanzo 42:52
Yeah, you know, and I think it’s funny, too, that, you know, a lot of like, the OGS, and those that, like, we’re early on, you know, right place, right time in some cases, right project, you know, what you go Labs is now created, right, from a, you know, they have they have the resources and the power to be the web to gorilla and I feel like I find it interesting that those with a board ape, you know, a PFP are often right now, ones that are, are questioning those that are like, you’re bringing innovation and power to the market. I’m like, hold on a second. You can’t you can’t see on both sides of that fence as well. So I really appreciate your honesty. I was really excited for this interview. For me part of it, it was being when asked you some of the questions that you know, I won’t even say they’re tough questions, but they’re questions that I believe by you answering them, they’re going to answer a lot of questions that I know that the community needs to hear that people need to hear as well. I’ll kind of turn it over to you. Any last words? Any last information about the project things that people be aware of? And and we’ll make sure all the links, of course, are in the show notes as well.

Anthony Mongiello 43:56
Yeah, so so just just the, the number one thing I want people to take away is that, you know, we’re, we’re here for the long we’re here for the long term, we’re building we’re building a company, we’re building a brand, it’s not going to be a one minute thing we are we’re looking at, you know, from a company perspective, we’re looking at multiple revenue streams. You know, we’re not focusing solely on just minting more NFT’s and more NFT’s and more nfts. You know, we’re looking at there’s a whole community aspect around events and experience and living your best life that we didn’t, we didn’t get to there’s the NFT aspect around tokenomics again, and then the third one is, you know, we’re going into the physical world pretty pretty darn quickly. We already have a prototype for a physical card game. So like a Magic the Gathering type of a card game. So we are going to be attacking it from multiple angles. We’re building. We’re building a brand. We’re building an entertainment media company that’s born in web three, that has a backbone and web three, but not confined to web three.

Brian Fanzo 44:54
Well, I really appreciate that take, you know, for our listeners to you know, just you know the moonbird The scams that are still being passed around right now are out of this world, please, please do not click on any links, I don’t care if it’s a verified Twitter account, it could be someone that was your friend, it could be my Twitter account. And I if there is a link to a project that looks too good to be true or is asking you to connect your wallet, please do not do that. I will put in the links The official Twitter account for this project. It’s @BullsApesProj, on Twitter, make sure that you’re starting origin from there, anytime you’re interacting with the website, their contract, I know just from, you know, the research that I’ve done on the project, you know, there will be hype on this project, you know, pre mins midday, a couple days after people trying to take advantage of people having the FOMO clicking on a link. And I just don’t want people to be scammed on that. And, you know, I also love you know, the commitment to education, you guys have some other events coming up in your discord. I know, you have the tank, man, you’re doing a thing around Tank Man and tokenomics as well, I already already was like, Oh, I gotta make sure I tune in for that. Because I I’m always about, you know, kind of educating and pushing limits. And then you know, that last thing, you know, we added a damn to do your own damn research. So it’s DYODR. Here for our podcast listeners. We even had a shout out to one of our listeners who got who got it tattooed on his forearm. The DYODR. But, you know, I would just say for everyone that’s out there, right? The do your own research is in every component, right of the project itself. But also, is it a project that you want to be a part of that the utility that the community or people that you want to be a part of. And if you do your research, and it might be a project not talking about this project specifically, but the projects might not be the best fit for you individually. Let’s do our best to rather than spread FUD or rumors or, or be jaded, let’s support, amplify and celebrate great projects that are innovating that are working to do their best. I think it’s very unfortunate in this space. Right now that you know there are people talking bad about Moon birds. And I believe only reason my own personal opinion, is because they missed out on the raffle. And they feel like they they missed that hype. And guess what, there’s, there’s a new project every day, there’s gonna be more opportunities. And I just challenge everyone, you know, do your own damn research on yourself to like, hey, is this liquidity that is worth my spend that I’m going to have the time to get the value of the utility. And if not, the beauty of this space is you might not mint. And a month later, you’re going to do additional research. And maybe at that point, buying into the project on secondary is something that is worthwhile for you. So thanks so much for being a guest on our show. I will make sure the links are out there. We’re going to include the project in our Mint 365 project actually, it’ll be right around the halfway mark. We’re almost at the halfway mark of buying an NFT every day for 365 days. So for all of our listeners for everyone that’s out there until tomorrow. Make it a great day. Cheers.

Kevin Sturmer 48:01
This show is not financial advice, so do your own damn research.